#1709 - 12/22/09 09:06 AM
BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
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Karin Litzcke
member
Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 187
Loc: Vancouver, BC
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Wow.
Did you (fellow parents) give your consent to have access to you negotiated in this agreement? I didn't give my consent to have access to me negotiated.
Did you (fellow parents) give your consent to have your children's courier services negotiated in this agreement? I didn't give my consent to have my children's courier services negotiated in this agreement.
Here are some questions: if the BCTF can negotiate the right to send its opinion on FSAs home with my kids, what else can they send home with my kids? And I think somewhat more to the point, given that the BCTF is a private organization with a profit/growth motive and political agenda, WHAT OTHER COMPANIES and WHAT OTHER ORGANIZATIONS can access this pipeline into my home? Logically, then, if the BCTF can advertise in schools, why can't the Fraser Institute?
The arbitrator who opened the gate for this one has a bit to answer for.
Teachers reach deal on anti-test material
CANWEST NEWS SERVICEDECEMBER 22, 2009
A campaign against standardized tests in B.C. public schools is expected to intensify in January as a result of a surprising deal between teachers and their employers.
Under the new agreement, teachers will be allowed to send three union pamphlets home with students and hand them to parents on school grounds.
The agreement marks a compromise between two parties that have been feuding for years over what union materials can be distributed.
The disagreement centres on the Foundation Skills Assessment, which tests Grade 4 and 7 students in reading, writing and math.
Those tests are scheduled to run from Jan. 18 to Feb. 26.
"Common sense prevailed," B.C. Teachers' Federation vice-president Susan Lambert said of the deal with the B.C. Public School Employers' Association, which lasts for one year and effectively ends eight union grievances against districts that had tried recently to stop teachers from handing out BCTF materials.
"I think the process of going to fruitless arbitration and losing . . . was too costly for them," she added.
The employers' association, which represents boards of education in labour matters, described the agreement as a practical solution.
"It's an attempt to formalize what the rules are," said chief executive officer Hugh Finlayson.
Pamphlets titled What Parents Need to Know, What Parents Need to Know: Foundation Skills Assessment and Testing? You Bet have been approved for distribution.
The pamphlets argue that standardized tests force teachers to "teach to the test" and cause anxiety for students. But the main reason the union objects to the FSA is because the results are used by the Fraser Institute every year to rank schools.
The Education Ministry insists the tests are not optional, but in Vancouver, one in three students did not write the FSA last year.
© Copyright (c) The Victoria Times Colonist
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#1712 - 12/30/09 12:41 PM
Re: BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
[Re: Heather]
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trinkypoo
stranger
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
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Wow. I haven't been to this forum for a long time, and I see nothing has changed.
The picture that's being painted here is laughable. The idea that children are having heavy loads of Union propaganda strapped to their little backs while they trudge home to their mommies and daddies is absurd.
First, it is clear that most parents understand the concerns regarding rating and ranking public schools according to some misrepresentative data. They also see the dangers of losing rich, meaningful teaching practice to the need to "teach to the test." That's why so many parents have chosen to excuse their students from this test.
Second, why would parents not want to hear from their child's teacher? Your statements suggest that this big,scary,political body called the BCTF is out to mess up your children. The BCTF is a painfully democratic body that encompasses every single one of the 40,000+ public school teachers in BC. They are the people who spend 6 hours or more per day with your child. They are a caring group of professionals who want the best for their students. Do you honestly think that ministers of education with little or no educational backgrounds are more knowledgeable and care more about the students of BC?
Third, all sorts of information and opinion come your way every day in your children's backpacks. Parents (or most of them) are intelligent, thinking, caring people who take into account as many opinions as possible so that they can make the best decisions for their children.
Why does this site continue to find as many ways as possible to bash teachers?
Bash the BCTF? Bash a teacher.
And aren't we supposed to be doing the best things possible for our kids?
Sorry. I just don't get it. Maybe someone can enlighten me.
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#1714 - 12/31/09 10:54 AM
Re: BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
[Re: Heather]
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trinkypoo
stranger
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
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Spoken like a true teacher basher, Heather, who apparently does not wish to hear the truth.
And who, as a school trustee, should want exactly that.
And who, obviously, has no real interest in having a website that allows others' opinions.
Opinions are only valid if they're yours.
Great attitude.
Now I know why others with any differing opinions don't bother to post here.
Sure wouldn't want to be a parent in Chilliwack!
Or a teacher in Chilliwack.
Wow.
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#1715 - 12/31/09 10:56 AM
Re: BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
[Re: trinkypoo]
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trinkypoo
stranger
Registered: 10/31/07
Posts: 13
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And by the way, I spoke to exactly the issues that were brought up in the previous post. You just don't want to hear my voice.
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#1717 - 12/31/09 09:17 PM
Re: BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
[Re: Heather]
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Karin Litzcke
member
Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 187
Loc: Vancouver, BC
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by the way, I spoke to exactly the issues that were brought up in the previous post. You just don't want to hear my voice.
I’m afraid you delude yourself if you believe you are speaking to what was written in the original post (OP).
Your comments addressed a whole bunch of stuff that I didn’t bring up at all and that have nothing to do with the OP. They advance the conversation not one whit, and in fact they bring in a bunch of items that only polarize the topic without adding any insights at all.
First, you abuse the site. I didn’t bring up the site at all. If you want to talk about it, why not start a thread about it? You could even ask all your friends to post in agreement with you.
Second, you ridicule the concern I raised. Although your language and delivery are quite witty, that is not the same as “speaking to the issues.”
Third, you launch into rankings and then into a very confused defense of the BCTF and/or teachers - I can’t really tell which - in response to an attack that I did not actually make.
Then you start blathering about testing, which this is not about at all.
Finally, you make a fairly weak attempt to address the issue of parents’ response to the material brought home, which succeeds in being pertinent only to the extent that it is also about parents.
Then you start attacking the site with wildly random accusations of bashing either teachers or the BCTF or both - you seem quite confused about which is which and how they are different.
And when called on your nonsense, and on repeating it endlessly at every opportunity - as you do here and on Kids in Victoria and probably on many other sites under heavens knows how many names - you make it personal:
Spoken like a true teacher basher, Heather, who apparently does not wish to hear the truth.
And who, as a school trustee, should want exactly that.
And who, obviously, has no real interest in having a website that allows others' opinions.
Opinions are only valid if they're yours.
Great attitude.
Frankly, Trinky, you’ve described yourself perfectly. I’ve seen many of your posts, and I’ve never seen you grant validity to any opinions other than your own. If you had a website - which you really should consider doing! - you can’t pretend you’d welcome opinions that differ from yours. Here, the floor is open - to anyone who has opinions they’re willing to have scrutinized and responded to. The only reason you don’t see a lot of them here is that we’ve been blacklisted and no one dares to gainsay the directive from somewhere (I imagine it to come from a Gollum-like figure in the bowels of the teacher industry, but I could be wrong).
And if your first post here doesn’t constitute bashing of anyone who disagrees with you, then what, exactly, is bashing?
Now, let’s get to those issues you were so keen to address. Maybe I need to clarify my original post. It is not about testing, it is not about unions, and it is not about teachers. It is, as Heather immediately grasped, about what the BCPSEA is authorized to bargain.
All because BCPSEA is the government agent for bargaining, doesn't give them the authority to speak for parents.
I don’t have a copy of the current BCPSEA/BCTF contract at my fingertips, but I remember seeing it some years ago and noting a clause in which the steps were outlined by which a parent would register a complaint with the school.
I never considered myself bound by that clause. I was not party to the bargaining, and I never gave my consent to have my behaviour dictated by this contract. My understanding of the BCPSEA’s mandate was that it did not extend to governing or evaluating - or for that matter correcting - my conduct. That is something the government can do through duly processed legislation and then the courts, but the BCPSEA is not the government.
You see Trinky, I never gave my consent, implied or otherwise, to having the BCPSEA make deals about my behaviour. Teachers, in contrast, do consent to being bargained for when they join the union, and so having their conduct governed by that contract is something they implicitly consent to when they accept their paycheque. So the BCPSEA cannot make agreements about parents the way the union can make agreements about teachers.
What BCPSEA has done here is similar, really, to the deal someone (districts? ministry? BCPSEA?) makes with Scholastic in public schools. For those who aren’t familiar with Scholastic, this is a private company that has something to sell to parents. Scholastic admail is sent home with children (and heck, the goods are sold on school property).
Many parents have complained about Scholastic, but I don’t know if the company’s use of children to carry admail has ever been challenged in court or whether parents have been able to opt out. Certainly, there is no other form of advertising that you can’t opt out of. You can look away from a billboard, turn off ads on radio or TV, not buy a magazine. and put a “no flyers” sign on your mailbox. And of course you can Not read the Scholastic flyer. But it does get into your home under whatever barriers you have set up, and it gets to your kids before it gets to you. That's more insidious than other advertising.
Now, I’ve never gotten my knickers in a knot over Scholastic enough to research the roots of this arrangement nor to study its legal parameters. That there’s a slippery slope here has, however, been noted by others - check out http://kotaku.com/5150464/scholastic-called-out-for-selling-games-in-schools .
"The opportunity to sell directly to children in schools is a privilege, not a right," said CCFC's director, Dr. Susan Linn. "Schools grant Scholastic unique commercial access to children because of its reputation as an educational publisher. But Scholastic is abusing that privilege by flooding classrooms across the country with ads for toys, trinkets, and electronic media with little or no educational value."
In this latest agreement, BCPSEA has agreed, basically, to extend the privileges of Scholastic admail to BCTF admail.
So my comments are merely intended to suggest that boundaries are being pushed on several levels. I don’t suggest, Trinky, that the issue is weight. It is access - access to my kids, access to me. Access like this usually has to be paid for, because it generates income for the advertiser. The connection between advertising and corporate income is a little less direct in the case of the BCTF than it is with Scholastic, but it’s there.
If you wish to discuss my OP, perhaps you could address the question: if you think it’s OK for Scholastic and the BCTF to use children to deliver admail to parents, what are the limits of your tolerance? On what grounds would you set limits, and can you give me a cogent argument that any such limits have not already been exceeded by this agreement?
Here’s another quote from the website about Scholastic:
"It's bad enough that so many of the books sold in Scholastic book clubs are de-facto promotions for media properties like High School Musical and SpongeBob SquarePants," said Dr. Linn. "But there's no justification for marketing an M&M videogame or lip gloss in elementary schools. Teachers should not be enlisted as sales agents for commercialized merchandise that actually compete with books for children's attention and their families' limited resources."
It is interesting to take the focus off kids and parents and posit the teacher as having been enlisted as the sales agent. So, if public school teachers can be enlisted as sales agents for Scholastic, and as sales agents for political propaganda from the BCTF, then why can they not be enlisted by other companies or organizations, either directly and individually, or en masse? Such as, for the sake of argument, the Fraser Institute? And if they can be enlisted, can they also opt out?
Or, can they be freelance? What if a teacher sells Tupperware or Silpada on the side? Can they send catalogues home with kids?
Again, all I'm asking is, what are the limits? By all means, Trinky, address this issue. Believe me, I’d love for someone to make me feel better about this story.
So far, you've only confirmed my worst fears.
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#1720 - 01/07/10 07:35 PM
Re: BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
[Re: Karin Litzcke]
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Karin Litzcke
member
Registered: 09/04/07
Posts: 187
Loc: Vancouver, BC
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Now where did that dratted Trinkypoo slink off to this time?? S/he always does this- pops in, fires off a few scripted salvos, and has never yet stuck around for the duration of a substantive discussion.
Threads where Trinky just goes away when challenged...
http://www.theschoolsweneed.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/148/fpart/1 (don't forget to go to Page 2)
http://www.theschoolsweneed.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Main/628/Number/1435#Post1435
http://www.kidsinvictoria.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=35&t=150416&hilit=trinkypoo&start=30 (this is page 3 of the thread)
S/he says s/he drops in every once in a while to see if anything has changed, but what really never seems to change is Trinkypoo's fervent belief that BC teachers are an all-for-one, one-for-all mass of faceless and thoughtless clones who s/he thinks are, despite their odd unanimity and mass mentality, the only ones who can really discern, measure, appreciate, and respond to your child's individuality.
That, and the consistent message to parents and citizens that we can't possibly understand our own children's abilities and should just trust the experts, no matter how idiotic and corporate their message is.
Sheesh. What a pity to find someone like this apparently teaching in public school classrooms.
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#1722 - 01/12/10 01:14 AM
Re: BCTF/BCPSEA agreement on FSA campaign delivery
[Re: Karin Litzcke]
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Ted Hewlett
stranger
Registered: 04/17/08
Posts: 15
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The BCTF response to Foundation Skills Assessment(FSA)tests raises some foundational questions. First of all, there is the question of truthfulness in advertising. The BCTF has targeted parents, particularly parents whose first language is not English, with ads that say in part:
If you want your child to succeed, this test isn’t going to help them. Every year, your child’s valuable time in the classroom is wasted on preparing for a test that won’t help them learn—and won’t improve their mark. As teachers, we believe in tests. We use them every day to help kids learn. But the Foundation Skills Assessment tests are not real tests.
These FSA tests are required every year for Grades 4 and 7, but they won’t help your child succeed—and are only used to unfairly rank schools. They’re wasting tax dollars and valuable learning time. Join the growing number of parents who are withdrawing their child from these meaningless tests.. . .
[http://bctf.ca/NewsReleases.aspx?id=20310]
The statement that children's time is wasted preparing for a test is dubious on two counts: (1) A skills test is one that is basically prepared for by the regular teaching of skills in the classroom, and (2)Time is not wasted if a little time is spent learning how to face test questions.
The statement that the tests wont't help a child succeed certainly needs to be challenged. If a test uncovers weaknesses that need to be addressed in teaching a child, and those matters are addressed, the child can certainly be helped.
Does the BCTF have the moral right to sabotage the tests? If a parent withdraws his child from participation in the tests, the parent denies himself or herself a potential source of knowledge about the child's skills, and if enough parents do this, the over-all picture of how well students have learned skills will not be accurate.
The issue of the anti-FSA material being sent home with the student has been addressed in part. The fact is that only certain messages are allowed to be sent home with students. The BCTF, with its vast financial resources (obtained from teachers who have to contribute to it if they want to teach in government-run schools)--the BCTF with its locals is one of the few organizations that can get its messages to parents in this way. With the intimidation of teachers who might choose to give public expression to their own professional opinions if contrary to the BCTF's or the College of Teachers, the control over the message received from school sources can be very rigid indeed, especially if school board go along with helping to grant special privileges to the union.
This is not teacher-bashing. Teachers are among the victims of the rigid control of ideas that the BCTF is party to.
The issue of ranking schools using FSA scores is a separate one that needs to be addressed separately, but it is certainly false to say that the tests are used only for ranking schools.
(Some of what I have written above I intend to publish on the website of BC Parents and Teachers for Life at http://www.BCPTL.org .")
Edited by Ted Hewlett (01/12/10 01:21 AM)
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